Modi in 2007: "I am a state level worker. Togadia works on international level now."

Narendra Modi & Praveen Togadia

NK SINGH

Dr Praveen Togadia is in the eye of a storm. Resurfacing after his mysterious disappearance at Ahmedabad, he has levelled several allegations. Earlier Media reports suggest that he was elected VHP's International Working President despite attempts by a section of RSS to stop his re-election. It is a known fact that Togadia and Narendra Modi have shared an uneasy relationship for years now. At one point of time both were considered Hindutva mascots in Gujarat.

I had interviewed Narendra Modi for Indian Express in 2007, shortly before assembly election that year. This is what he said about Togadia in the interview carried in the newspaper's issue of November 1, 2007:

• The VHP and RSS were part of your support base last time. this time people like Praveen Togadia are openly working against you.

I do not have a single instance of the Sangh Parivar crating any problem for me. The Sangh Parivar is with me. They have always backed me, helped me, and guided me. The Sangh Parivar is my eternal strength.

• They say that you have tried to engineer a split in the VHP.

I have already told you that I will not criticise anyone. That is not my way.

• What happened with Praveen Togadia? At one point of time both of you were considered Hindutva mascots in Gujarat.

There is certainly one change. I am a state level worker. He works on the international level now. His canvas is much wider.

• But he says that Hindus are not safe in Modi’s Gujarat?

Thirty per cent of the districts in the country are living under the shadow of the gun - terrorism, Naxalism, insurgency, you name it. These are Government of India figures. Compared to all these areas, Gujarat is an oasis of peace and security.

FULL TEXT OF INTERVIEW

Even for the hard-boiled political reporter, a meeting with Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi is a remarkable experience. There is no fleet of cars parked outside Bungalow No. 26, his official residence in Gandhinagar. There is no crowd waiting for darshan. Political hangers-on are conspicuous by their absence. The only indication of VIP status is the security cordon outside the house. In fact, the first-time visitors often presume that Narendra Modi is not in! N.K. SINGH met him in the run-up to assembly polls to talk about how he assesses his record in power, his preparation for the impending political battle, the dissidence within the BJP and why he won’t answer questions on the 2002 riots.

• Looking back at your six years in power, is there a sense of satisfaction? Or do you feel it was too short a period to fulfil the goals you had set for yourself?

In our set-up, one gets only a five-year term. But one can start implementing one’s dreams, provided there is a level building field. It is our misfortune that after independence, after Gujarat came into existence in 1960, no one thought about the basic infrastructure for development. Much of my effort has gone into filling up that gap. For 10 years Gujarat had banned the recruitment of teachers. We had to recruit one lakh teachers to fill up this gap. So, much of my efforts during the last five years were diverted towards creating this basic infrastructure which ought to have been done by my predecessors. In that sense, I find the five-year term a little too short.

            

As far as my new initiatives and innovative schemes are concerned, whether it is in social infrastructure or physical infrastructure, you will find a fresh approach. I have tried to being in real democracy. We have taken the path of people’s participation. After the 2001 earthquake we had to rebuild this state. How could the government build thousands of schoolrooms? So we formed a committee of villagers, gave them designs, created a material bank, gave them money. And they built the school buildings much before the stipulated time. They built better and bigger schools, and even returned the money they saved.

Some schemes have brought immense satisfaction to me. For example, my ‘Beti Bachao’ movement. Gujarat was very bad in the sphere of gender equality. Now there is an awakening. Then there is the Chiranjeevi scheme to deal with the problem of infant mortality. That scheme may become a model not only for other states in this country but also for other developing nations. WHO is making efforts in that direction. All these give me satisfaction when I look back at my five years in power.

• Will there be a shift in your priorities if you come to power for a third time?

The government’s priority should be to touch the lives of the poorest of the poor, those who are at the lowest rung of society. My priority was always the welfare of the poor. In future also, that will be my priority.

But their welfare does not mean slogan-mongering. One has to empower them. If development in the agricultural sector can lead to welfare of the poor, I have to strengthen agriculture. If I can create new opportunities by developing the 1,600 km long deserted seashore, I will try to develop that area. If I create a technological university and start 600-800 short term courses there to impart new skills for employment opportunities, I will not hesitate to do that.

If a poor man in Gujarat wants some employment opportunity today, he rears a cow or a buffalo. There is 20 per cent growth in milk production in Gujarat. It means that the incomes of the poor have gone up by 20 per cent. My priorities are clear – welfare of the common man.

• What kind of a role do you envisage for yourself five years from now? Will it always be Gujarat and Gujarat? Or to put it differently, will it always be Modi, Modi and Modi in Gujarat?

• I have been originally a swayamsevak of the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh. We are trained to think from a national perspective. So when I talk of Gujarat, I do it from the national perspective. If Gujarat prospers, it will help Bihar, it will help Orissa, and other parts of the country. So why don’t we develop one area as a model, a show piece that may inspire others to take up the same path?

• But what about your role five years from now? 
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• I have never charted a road map of my life.

• Has it all happened without any planning?

As far as my coming to the government is concerned, it is a matter of chance. I never wanted to govern. I had not contested even a student’s union election. I contested an election for the first time after becoming chief minister. It was never part of my life. But then, it is my RSS upbringing that makes me to do well whatever task I am entrusted with.

• For the last five years you have refused to respond to allegations about your role in the 2002 riots. Last week you even terminated a TV interview midway. How does this silence help you and why this stand?

During the 2002 riots I personally briefed the media daily. I answered all questions that were put to me. The assembly session was on at that time and I have replied to all questions in detail there. Even a booklet has been published on the topic. Parliament has also debated the issue for hundreds of days. The topmost leaders of this country have debated this issue.

Gujarat’s political life is not caste-based. Take Madhavsinh Solanki’s period. The KHAM that he had crated seemed to enjoy strong bonds. But within five years it lost its roots. An average Gujarati tries to carry along the entire society. If two or three persons shift sides, it does not mean that the entire community will follow them. This kind of thinking does injustice to the community.

Thousands of newspapers in this country have written reams about it. There were thousands of editorials on the subject.

Now that many cases are pending before the Supreme Court, now that a commission headed by a retired judge of the Supreme Court is seized of the issue, my stand is that I should not talk about the subject. I do not want that any statement of mine should influence either the Supreme Court or the Judicial Commission. I feel that I should maintain this forbearance. I will wait till the Supreme Court or the Judicial Commission pronounce their verdict. I do not want to influence the judiciary in this country, knowingly or unknowingly. This is a principled stand for me.

            The second part of my stand relates to the media. The common man has never asked me this question. I go to thousands of meetings and seminars, but I was never asked this question. This question emanates from a particular group, which has vested interest, which belongs to a particular ideology. I have a question for these people. In 2002 the entire media was after me that I was contesting the election on emotive issues, that I did not talk about development. And now in 2007 when I talk about development they asked me why I am shy of discussing emotive issues! I would like to ask these people in the media why don’t they want to talk about development this time.

• As the BJP goes to polls, it looks like a divided house. Two of your former chief minister, your former home minister, some MLAs and even a couple of MPs are against you.

All those who are devoted to the BJP are united, they are working in one direction. During the last five years these people have scored one victory after another. In the next election also, the same people will emerge victorious.

• But don’t you think that the dissidents’ activities will help the Congress?

I read a newspaper report from Amreli that the Congressmen there are up in arms against the party leadership because the BJP dissidents’ possible entry into Congress has raised doubts about their own future. I am just stating what I have read.

• Your detractors are accusing you of all kind of things. Yet you and your party have refused to join issue with the dissidents, almost ignoring then. What is this strategy? How will it help the BJP?

First, the news is totally wrong. During the last four years all the top leaders of our party, Atalji, Advaniji, our party’s national president, the former national president, all of them have consistently engaged these friends in a dialogue. They have talked to them for hours, for several hours, for days, always finding time to meet them. The Sangh Parivar also tried its best. It is not as if no one ever tried.

            Ours is a cadre-based party. I know how much effort and hard work is required to develop a worker. If a single worker leaves our organisation naturally it causes distress to all.

• But now that they are leaving they are saying all kind of things. Why are you ignoring them?

All of them are my friends. If I do not utter a single word against them it apparently means that even now my love for them in intact.

• But they are not expressing love for you.

I am not one of those who only returns love for love. It is my sanskar to give love. That is why I am giving love.

• But by not taking any action against the dissidents aren’t you giving a signal that the party is afraid of their support base?

I think the party has taken action.

• Yes, seven MLAs have been suspended. But others, many of them occupying important positions, are still there.

The strategy for that has to be worked out by senior leaders of the party and I feel they are moving in the right direction.

• The Leuva Patels and Kolis, who together constitute almost one third of the population, seem to have turned against the BJP. Why has this happened ? How will it affect your fortunes?

Gujarata’s political life is not caste-based. Take Madhavsinh Solanki’s period. The KHAM that he had created seemed to enjoy strong bonds. But within five years it lost its roots. Caste is not a part of Gujarat politics. An average Gujarati tries to carry along the entire society. If two or three person shift sides, it does not mean that the entire community will follow them. This kind of thinking dies injustice to the community.

• The VHP and RSS were part of your support base last time. this time people like Praveen Togadia are openly working against you.

I do not have a single instance of the Sangh Parivar crating any problem for me. The Sangh Parivar is with me. They have always backed me, helped me, and guided me. The Sangh Parivar is my eternal strength.

• They say that you have tried to engineer a split in the VHP.

I have already told you that I will not criticise anyone. That is not my way.

• What happened with Praveen Togadia? At one point of time both of you were considered Hindutva mascots in Gujarat.

There is certainly one change. I am a state level worker. He works on the international level now. His canvas is much wider.

• But he says that Hindus are not safe in Modi’s Gujarat?

Thirty per cent of the districts in the country are living under the shadow of the gun - terrorism, Naxalism, insurgency, you name it. These are Government of India figures. Compared to all these areas, Gujarat is an oasis of peace and security.

• There is a feeling that you are very close to industry and business. Some say too close. Shankersinh Vaghela says that your government is not for five crore people but for five crorepatis.

My Vibrant Gujarat Global Summit takes place once in two years. On the other hand, every year for three days my government travels to Gujarat’s villages to promote education for eh girl child. I personally go to the least developed village. I stay there for three days and personally take the girls to schools, I devote one ad a half days in two years for Vibrant Gujarat. I give three days every year for the girl child in the most backward village of the state. You can imagine what is the priority of my government. I have asked secretaries of the state government to look after 30 of the least backward tehsils in the state. And I devote three hours discussing each tehsil with these officers. Can you imagine! Three hours for a tehsil at the chief minister’s level! Ninety hours for 30 tehsils. This is my priority.

                        It is my duty that investment comes to my state. That is why I organise the Vibrant Gujarat Summit and I meet everyone on the open stage. I do not meet anyone behind closed doors, which was a weakness of politicians in the past. Those who want to indulge in wrongdoing meet people behind closed doors. My conscience is clear. I meet them in front of TV cameras, in front of everyone, under the glare of the arc lights.

• Some vehicles were burnt at your election rally at Surat. You alleged that it could be the handiwork of BJP rebels or the Congress. The Congress has challenged you to order a CBI inquiry.

The Surat function was organised by the Leuva (Peter) diamond workers to facilitate me. The very fact that three lakh people assembled for a public reception of a chief minister at the fag end of his tenure is enough to cause heartburn among certain people. So one has to identify those people who did not like my public reception.

Look at the kind of advertise, press notes and threatening SMSs circulated by these people during the last 30 days. Even after that if they say that they have nothing to do with the arson, how one can believe them?

• The leader of the Opposition has denied the charge and demanded a CBI inquiry.

The leader of the Opposition does not have faith in anyone. He has never accepted anything. I am grateful to him that only after he issues a statement the media prints my statement too.

• The BJP is upset about the transfer of officers recently ordered by the Election Commission. What are your objection?

If police officers are changed in Gujarat and not in Himachal Pradesh, it will raise doubts in the mind of the common man. The Gujarat Government is instructed to remove photographs of ministers from its websites within 24 hours. But you can see the ministers’ photographs even today in Himachal websites. It is in such a situation that questions are raised about the EC.

• Tehelka has come out with a string operation about the 2002 riots.

I will not comment on that. A person who has just been released from jail, do you expect him to shower flower on me?

Published in Indian Express on 1 Nov 2007

Email: nksexpress@gmail.com

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